Posted on June 11, 2013 by Stephan Wiedner
Hey Coaches,
We’ve got good news that is going to save you time. We just deployed the 2-part bidding process that we mentioned in our previous update.
Here’s the way it works:
- When you find a client lead that is a good fit for you, click on the “Recommend myself” button
- You will be prompted to write a 200 character optional message to Noomii (THIS WILL NOT BE SEEN BY THE CLIENT). Use this to tell us why you are a good fit focusing on information that is not already on your profile. For example, the client is in a city where you grew up. Or, the client is a Rotarian and you are too.
- Once you are approved, you will be notified by email and be prompted to write a message to the client.
- After you compose your message to the client, they will be sent an email.
Because we just deployed this, there may be minor glitches. For example, if you responded to a client lead in the last 24 or 48 hours, you may need to re-write your message after you are approved.
If you experience any problems, please leave a comment here or send us an email at support@noomii.com.
Thanks for your patience and we hope you like the change.
Hi guys,
I have, I must admit, enjoyed the new changes (up until today, that is) – much more than I thought I would. I had put some serious thought into my disagreements and reasoning behind the major change. Gave it a couple of months before deciding whether to cancel my subscription or not. However, it has worked well.
Up until today, that is. Now, I do have some thoughts on the new changes.
Yes, it takes time to write a personalized message that may or may not get forwarded. As a coach, we should read carefully what the client is asking for and determine if they are good fit for us and we for them. By going through this process, it forces us to carefully consider what the client is needing from us.
It also insures we honour the client by writing proposals only on clients we feel we can truly help – that fit our niche.
My concerns:
1). how much time is saved by writing two proposals: one to Noomii and one to the Client? Doesn’t our profile already do this for Noomii?
Certainly, writing an simplified version for Noomii makes it easier for YOU to read. Which, if that is the case, state it and be done with it. However, it still takes time. And that time requires thought to convince YOU to send us to the client. it’s still a sales letter, even IF 200 characters.
2) You discussed data collection in your last post. 3 weeks worth. Now, it’s been four weeks and you put in new changes. How accurate is 4 weeks of data on such a major initial change? I think you are rushing tweeks because some people are complaining about writing proposals.
What writing proposals does is actually MAKE coaches consider if a client is right for them. It DOES take time and that’s the point – taking time forces us to carefully consider if a client is good for us. Sure, my proposal might not be sent, but I have already had several that have.
I think taking time to write a carefully crafted proposal within the 1000 characters we are allotted is a good thing. If we care about helping our clients we should care about what we send.
3) if you go to a one button recommendation system, it becomes TOO easy. What will happen is coaches will scan the client request, see a word or idea that sounds good then hit “Recommend”. No thought needed. No time taken. Let Noomii decide.
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Now to some positive thoughts. It seems you guys are doing a better job of interviewing coachees who post a request. I am seeing more and more Noomii thoughts in the blue posts. I greatly appreciate this. It clarifies what the client needs and wants.
There was a coach in a previous thread who mentioned discussing costs, chances of hiring a coach, if the know what coaching is (coaching/therapy). Some good ideas he offered.
So, in closing, I would like to say I was happy with the previously current system of writing proposals for Noomii to consider. It forced me to carefully consider what my time was worth and therefore, if the client was worth a recommendation.
Now, by writing a proposal to you, we have to sell YOU on ourselves with one post, then write yet ANOTHER proposal to the client… I am not a fan. That is DOUBLE the writing, with two separate reasons for doing so.
I think you have gone beyond a good idea based upon complaints from coaches that say, ::whine:: “It takes too much time to write a proposal to a client that might not hire me”.
Well, a good client IS worth the time and we, as coaches, should TAKE the time to craft a proposal to clients we truly can work with. Nothing in this world is guaranteed, nor should it be.
When crafting a work of art, or any creative endeavor, you CAN overwork it. There is a point where it is excellent, where one more brushstroke, one more word can cause it to be less than what it was.
I wonder if you have just overworked a very good thing?
Thanks
Stephen Gann
Forward Focus Coaching
Guess what coaches! You can bid on every client and not write a proposal. The listing is optional. Just go through and click to your heart’s desire. You can coach everyone, so let Noomii decide based upon your profile.
So, I imagine once this bombs, we will be getting back to a limit on how many we propose ourselves to, yes? premium plus gets X, premium gets y sub-premium gets z and freebie gets to watch. If you don;t get proposed to the client, you get your request back –
JUST LIKE BIDDING
You had a good thing, Noomii. Yet, four weeks worth of data was enough to wreck it. Even though:
1) We are seeing a 50% increase in conversion
2) Coaches are getting hired quickly
3)Speed matters, big time
So, what more do you want?
I DO NOT like this change. And since I do not have to think one bit whether a client is a good fit for me because you will be doing that, I will be bidding on EVERY client that pops up.
Sudden thought: there was mention of an algorithm that would take all human decision making out of the process. Is this where we are heading? So Noomii doesn’t have to read the proposals? Like google – keyword driven?
I am a paying customer. I pay the premium plus price and have for more than a year. Under your new four week system, I recommended myself five times with four being sent. I have had two requests for consultations, with one of those two hiring me – the other consultation has not occurred as of today.
I call that a success. Most clients since I signed up with Noomii.
And now, you change it again.
I hope you can see where my disappointment comes from?
Cancel this ridiculous change and give it time. Until then, I will bid on every client I can.
Hello!
I agree with some of the comments here, however, there is something I think that needs to be said and that is that the folks at noomii.com are doing something here that most businesses and websites no longer do; listen to their customer and respond. Yes, sometimes the process of change and figuring things out can be frustrating, but I am grateful that Stephan, Kurt and Ayla are responsive to the needs of their customers. They are obviously making great efforts.
I’m a bit concerned that the Client doesn’t get the recommendation until the Coach writes the message – I know I don’t always have time to check my emails multiple times in a day, and I certainly would like my recommendation to be sent right away. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks,
Angela Marie Fava
I disagree with the prior comment. I like the system of being able to bid one any client that has asked for services, As a coach, you know your skills, strengths, and weaknesses. Our business is to provide our clients with the best help possible. If you know you are not a good fit then do not apply… I wouldn’t. Bidding on every client does a disservice to a client who may choose you that you know you cannot help, and it is poor practice.
I appreciate the fact that Noomi is exploring new ways to maximize success in our business and in our clients’ lives.
Stephen-
I would say that your comment is as ridiculous as you think this new system is. What makes you think that the coaches on this site are so ignorant as to behave in the way you describe? I have a higher opinion of my colleagues. I don’t think that many, if any, will act in this manner. I certainly won’t, and I haven’t. I respond to requests only from people for whom I think I am a good fit. Why would I do otherwise? I have no desire to overwhelm the Noomii staff. I want them on my side. If you carry out your plan to respond to every request, I doubt if you will wreck the system; it’s more likely that you just won’t get any recommendations.
Ted Behr
Hi,
Still disagree with your bias toward co-located coaching. What does it matter that we grew up in the same hometown? Hopefully we have both moved on. Live in the same state. So what? Most of our coaching is on the phone unless a face to face is specifically requested. And then there is Skype. Please reconsider. :). I would love to hear how other coaches feel about this.
Otherwise, congratulations for continually seeking to improve your process regarding recommendations. . Happy to try it out!
I agree with the other folks that think this is getting to be too much, and I’ll set out my reasons here.
1) I wasn’t recommending myself on the majority of leads because it was made very clear that you want us to only recommend ourselves to clients who are in our local geographical area, which to me is ridiculous because my business model (and I’m sure that of many others) is all telecoaching and is the model I chose so I wouldn’t be limited to a local demographic only. A simple answer to dropping the local requirement for coaches would simply be to include a yes or no local coach preference question on the coachee request form. This would easily indicate in the leads what that proposed coachee wanted, and if they indicated local only, those of us who were not local to that lead would not recommend ourselves.
2) Now we’re to write two recommendations instead of one that best represents why we’re a good fit? What’s the point of the profile if it isn’t serving its purpose?
3) What’s the point of having a tier payment program for members if we are all open to recommend on every lead?
4) Although the bidding system may have had its flaws, at least it was streamlined and coaches knew where they stood in terms of what they got with the paid or unpaid program they chose.
5) As a paying member, I’m on the fence about staying with Noomii at this point. As pointed out by other coaches, writing two recommendations for every lead you’re interested in is time-consuming and will just get to be too much for those of us who take the necessary time to write our recommendations to honestly represent why we believe we’re a good fit for that proposed client.
6) I’m all for returning to the bidding system but adding the local preference question to the coachee form.
I’m a bit disillusioned right now. I’ve been with Noomii for a little while now, and I’ve yet to land a lead because I’ve limited my recommendations due to trying to fit the requirements.
First, thank you for inviting and including our comments and suggestions during this transition process. I appreciate everyone’s sincere desire to co-create a solution that serves the highest good of all involved.
As Peggy expressed, I have also found the local geographic limitation very discouraging. One of the things I love about the coaching I do is the flexibility and ability I have to be instrumental in transforming lives and relationships anywhere in the world as long as we have a phone or skype connection. Not everyone can or will travel to live retreats to work with me in person. I think this piece is both an educational issue and a matter of preference. Many people may not yet know what is truly possible and how powerful coaching can be via phone. I actually find that coaching via phone can be more effective than in person because my clients are more tuned in and attentive to themselves and not distracted by looking to me.
The other educational piece that would improve the follow through and outcomes of clients is around investing in themselves and the results they desire. I usually don’t emphasize a free “consultation” because it sets up an expectation of lower value or coaching for free. I have noticed this set up can make it more of a challenge for clients to commit to investing in the life and relationship they desire. Instead I offer (invite) an initial “conversation” to learn more about their needs, feel into the quality of our connection and find out if and how we wish to move forward into a coaching experience. I set them up to value and commit to the coaching process from the start so they receive the most from it.
Thank you again for all you are doing to create the highest benefit for all. Joyfully and gratefully, Tracie
I see the option for users to search by geographical area is no longer an option. Many clients found me by browsing coaches in my city, then choosing to hire me after one simple phone conversation. As a user, I would find it annoying that I could not browse coach profiles independently of filling out a form. Introverts like myself prefer the browsing method noomi previously offered. Please organize coaching profiles by city again!
I am also a bit disillusioned. I am new to this directory and reside in California. I start my day at 6am and find it unlikely that I will be getting to work any earlier than that to start checking leads. By the time I get the leads and recommend myself for the few that may be a good fit, the maximum has already been met. It’s quite a bit of extra work in my day to try and keep up and then to not only have to recommend myself but then go in again and write another recommendation if chosen. Again, delayed because of the time difference.
Is there something you can do about this?
Is anyone else unable to recommend themselves from their iPhone since the changes have been made?? This is very frustrating to me since on most days this is my only option, and by the time I get in front of my iPad or computer, I can no longer bid because the client has gotten so many other recommendations already…
Kimberly: I’m not sure what you have been looking at. When I look at the Home page, the first thing I see is a large box that says “Find Coaches Near You” and a place to enter a Zip code. If I click on Find a Coach and then All coaches, I get a list of states. I click on a state and I get a list of cities.
My comment is that I think that having the geographical option so prominent is too much emphasis on searching by location. The type of coach is much more important. I would like to see that removed from the Home page.
I agree with Kathy and Tracie about the bias toward geographical matching. It really is irrelevant unless the individual has a strong desire for in-person coaching or very limited time availability where time zone might be a factor. I coach ALL my clients on the phone regardless of where they live. I think that Noomii should be recommending the five coaches that are the best fit regardless of location.
Well, I don’t think any of the options work very well. I recommended myself about 10 times in 2 months and I was selected for about 3 people only. I know for some might seem a good deal, but I really hand picked the potential customers. For instance, a potential customer was complaining about arthritis and being overweight. I am a former gymnast and lost about 20 pounds to get back in shape, and after gymnastics I was discovered with arthritis (at 19 years old), and I was told that I will be in a wheelchair by 30. Tens of doctors said the same thing on 2 continents. Now I’m 32 and feel fantastic. Arthritis simply said is the inflammation of the cells around the bones. In 2004 I discovered cellular nutrition and that is what helped me be healthier, not have that crucial pain in my knees and be able to walk, and I also lost the extra weight. That customer with a little coaching and a cellular nutrition program could improve her health condition.
I think I was perfect for her as a coach, but somebody decided that I’m not. And the same happened with the other about 6 potential customers.
Note that none of those customers wanted someone from there city or had any specific requirements that I didn’t qualify for.
Therefore, to be honest with you, I’m still paying for my account with Noomii for the exposure. That’s it. I live in New York City, and it seems like this site just doesn’t work for me. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that is a bad site, or that is not working for anybody. All I’m saying is that so far it did not work for me.
Thank you for reading.
Best,
Irina
I personally like the new two-part bidding system, and I haven’t found it overly time-consuming. I would rather write a quick, brief note to the Noomii staff as a first step than have to take the time every time, perhaps needlessly, to write a longer, more thoughtful letter to the potential client. To me it seems much more respectful of our time if we only have to write the letter when we know the person will see it.
I second Laura’s comment.
I want to start by thanking all of you for your comments and consideration. We love the feedback.
Even if we don’t respond right away, we do read your comments and openly circulate them around the office. It’s particularly useful for our developers who aren’t on the front lines talking to coaches everyday.
In one of my previous posts, I mentioned that with four week’s of data, the new matching system saw a 50% increase in the number of consultation requests made to coaches. We now have another month’s worth of data and the 50% increase holds. In fact, it got slightly better. We are very encouraged by that and you should too.
Now onto responding to individual commenters.
@Angela, Jun 14th: Oh the irony. Here I am responding to your comment 2 or 3 weeks later. Good suggestion, btw, about sending messages to the client right away. That’s something we may work into the plans to test out.
@Kristen Jun 15th: Thanks for the props.
@Kathy Jun 19th: I know you can work with anyone anywhere. The client doesn’t always think that way. We can teach them but even when we do, there can still be a bias toward local coaches. AND, we are still recommending non-local coaches at least 50% of the time. If you are a good fit, we will recommend you even if you are out of state.
@Peggy Nelson on Jun 19th: Good suggestion for asking clients more directly if they want a local coach. We are going to test that. The Premium Plus members get introduced to roughly twice as many client leads. That’s the difference between the plans. We keep track of each lead you receive and we have a formula that calculates how many you should have been recommended to based on your plan.
@Tracie on Jun 19th: Yes, we are looking at ways to better educated potential clients when they visit the site. We know phone coaching can be effective. We aren’t ignoring that fact. We are simply giving clients what they THINK they want, which is often a local coach.
What are you recommending we do regarding the “free consultation” piece? It sounds to me like you are doing a good job “closing” leads. That’s great.
@Ted Behr: Thanks for taking the time to respond to a few of the earlier comments. You’re making my job easier and I really appreciate it. If you ever come to Vancouver, we’ll buy you a beer (or two).
@Irina Popa-Erwin on Jun 29th: I’ve looked at what may be the issue with your bidding success. You have recommended yourself a bunch of times when you think you are a perfect fit. Unfortunately, you are not the only coach that is a good fit. In some cases 20+ coaches are recommending themselves for a lead and we can’t choose everyone.
Also, THIS IS FOR ALL THE COACHES, one of the key pieces of information that we look at is the 200 character description of your ideal client. We want that to match what the client is looking for so when the client reads your bio, it looks like we did a good job looking for someone that meets their needs. And the more specific the ideal client description can be, the easier it is for us to discern whether you’re a good fit.
In your case, Irina (Sorry if I’m using you as an example to illustrate a point to everyone. Please treat my comments as constructive criticism.), here’s what you say at the top of your profile: “As a gymnast, I’ve learned that one of the major difference between regular people and athletes is that athletes have a coach. As an athlete, I would have never reached the top without my COACH.”
In your comment on this post, you say you work with people with chronic pain issues but that’s not obvious from your ideal client description.
Instead, based on your comment, it should say something like “Do you suffer from chronic pain or weight issues? As a former gymnast, I create customized life coaching and cellular nutrition plans to help you feel fantastic.” (161 chars, mostly I’ve poached words you wrote in the comment above)
Notice how that includes all of the components of the value proposition formula that I offer here: http://www.noomii.com/blog/valueprop (the pain the client is experiencing, your solution, and your x-factor).
If you had that as your description, we would be more apt to recommending you to anybody who mentions any physical pain issue or weight loss.
This is some of the stuff that we cover in the FREE one-on-one profile review (which we aren’t going to offer forever because it simply takes up too much of our time). So if you haven’t had a profile review you yet, email support@noomii.com to reserve a spot in our calendars before we get rid of that service.
Thanks for helping shape Noomii!
Stephan
Thank you for your reply to my comment. I understand that Noomii is using the profile short description to match coaches with potential customers, and I appreciate your suggestion for my profile description. But this is the issue actually, I do not have enough space to describe everything that I’m a perfect fit for. That is why Noomii should go more by the coach Bio, not the 200 characters description, because that illustrates better all the coach qualifications and skills. I have an extensive experience in executive coaching, leadership coaching, career coaching, sales coaching, models coaching (fashion industry), athletes coaching, weight loss coaching and cellular nutrition program recommendation. I know it is unusual and hard to believe that a life coach can actually have that much experience, but it just happens that I do. This is the reason I wrote such a general short description. If you guys can say everything I listed above to emphasize what is my ideal client, I would be happy to use it. For me, coaching is not just a business, it is much more than that. I am in this business to help people. That is why I cannot treat this like just another business where I write whatever is better for the business.
As for your statement, saying — “Unfortunately, you are not the only coach that is a good fit. In some cases 20+ coaches are recommending themselves for a lead and we can’t choose everyone.”, please show me 1 coach that had arthritis and managed to improve the pain to the level of feeling just a discomfort, and I will agree with your statement. My suggestion to you, in order to really improve your services for coaches and their clients, would be to make a quick follow-up call or send an email to the client that hired a coach recommended by you, about 4 weeks after the first session and see how that client is doing. This would give you a better idea about how you are doing. And will also build loyalty for the site visitors, not to mention about the number of new referrals your site could get from happy customers.
Please excuse any typos as I am rushing to great a customer for a face to face session.
PS. It is not easy to do what you guys do at Noomii, and I appreciate all your hard work.
Best,
Irina Popa-Erwin
I totally agree with what Stephan Gann had written. I believe you’ve created more work for us as your customers and yourselves. I preferred the previous bidding system. Why create more work for yourselves in matching coaches, who may write a better 200 character sales post than I, but not necessarily the “best” coach. I believe our profile is enough for the client. Let the client make the decision and not NOOMII staff. This just adds more bias to the process. I’ve noticed that the leads I’ve received are the ones most coaches don’t want and usually aren’t qualified. I don’t appreciate getting the crappy leads some coaches don’t want, so I’ve stopped recommending myself for those I know who aren’t ready. I believe it’s the client’s responsibility to do the due diligence and research on the coaches they hire. If they aren’t willing to do that, then they are lazy and probably not a good client for me.
I prefer going back to the bidding system that was working and much more fair for us coaches. I would also add the local requirement button for the client. KISS – Keep it Simple Sweetheart! I’m looking for “qualified” leads and not more work to do. I think the 50% conversion is based on the initial calls made by NOOMII to screen and qualify potential clients. This cuts out folks who don’t have the means to pay.
@Irina – If you want to coach everyone (athletes, CEOs, people with chronic pain, etc…) go for it. And good luck. However, consider that it is more challenging to market yourself that way. If you find out that you need brain surgery and you are presented with the option of going with a specialized brain surgeon or a general surgeon, which one are you going to choose? It’s obvious.
The same goes for people looking for a coach. The generalist is going to get overlooked for the specialist. Yes, you may be able to help a lot of people but that’s not necessarily what clients are going to conclude.
And good suggestion about following up with clients after 4 weeks. We are going to do that now that we have a new coach matching expert on staff.
@Mariano – If the new system has caused you to use more discretion and not recommend yourself to the “crappy leads” that aren’t a good fit for you, then I think it’s working. You say “I believe our profile is enough for the client. Let the client make the decision and not NOOMII staff.” The client’s experience is no different. They still get 5 coaches. The difference is we are sending better fitting coaches that has resulted in a 50% increase in clients following up with coaches (now with nearly 3 months worth of data). No, the 50% increase is not due to the initial calls made by Noomii. We were always doing that.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and concerns.
I assume that this coach conversation is not accessed by clients – correct? It seems to me that it would be very inappropriate.
Thanks,
Minda
@minda – correctamundo! that is a noomii-and-coach conversation only.
I was skeptical about this change at first. Not knowing that you could bid on every client without leaving a note, I have been “choosie” about who I want to work with, just as I had been before.
But previously, I had 0 referrals. Every client I have from Noomii were folks who contacted me directly.
With this new system, I have been referred to 2 out of 3 and both have contacted me for their initial call. I call that success!
Oh yay, @kellie! Thanks for sharing your success!
I would like a return phone call regarding how you are lising client leads.
Thank you.
@sally – we will check in with you soon!